Ed Whyman on Mon, July 20, 2009 at 3:29 said:

2% extra free that looks like to me

1.
If a proposal was declined before is there any point in putting in a redeveloped proposal that builds on its own failures/successes?
2.
Also is it possible for every application to get a sentence/paragraph of feedback so the applicant can go on and improve their work?
3.
Is it possible to propose a business structure that benefits the public? (http://www.Traidmark.org explains how running any enterprise as a not for profit that invests any surplus funds in new innovation creates institutional innovation that helps any organisation gain goodwill and constantly evolve to provide even more innovative services.

Ed

Ewan McIntosh on Tue, July 21, 2009 at 8:32 said:

Hi Ed,

Thanks for your questions. Here are my thruppence worth:

1. When an idea has been knocked back through the online system it has often been considered by two of our Digital Commissioners, who should provide a line or two (and sometimes a phone call or email with more explanation) of exlpanation. THe feedback is intended to be helpful and not a checklist of things to do to ‘make it 4iP-able’. Therefore, we’d hope that you might come back submitting more, but different ideas.

2. Feedback, as I’ve said, is a core part of our work in the hope that it will make better ideas for 4iP for the future). If you don’t feel you’ve had feedback or that it’s not clear, then just get in touch with the Commissioner who sent the original mail.

3. We would seek our ideas to generate revenues and hopefully one day profit (on the more commercial end) and/or, above all, be sustainable. That means that the right idea for 4iP may not generate significant revenues but, thanks to an avid fanbase or volunteer backing, has a life ahead of it without yet more financial support from 4iP.

Ed Whyman on Tue, July 21, 2009 at 11:39 said:

Hi Ewan

Thanks for the rapid response

I understand that means that business 4ip funds could well be run as not for profits that invest surplus funds in new innovative not for profits

This could be a great way for 4ip to start chain reactions of innovation in a decentralised manner like a parent letting their child go out into the world and build greater achievements for themselves


Is there a way for 4ip to list the public/social benefits of different business models in the short and long term? Every organisation/product has to thrive and survive and it would be great to enhance innovative products with innovative business structures/models that enable them to do the most good for the most people.

Ewan McIntosh on Tue, July 21, 2009 at 11:43 said:

Well, I’d say that each project comes with its own public and social benefits - all 4iP projects do by the nature of Channel 4’s being a public service media organisation. What those benefits are depend on the genius of the independent companies that bring their great ideas to us for support.

For example, at the moment we’ve got an iPhone app close to launch which, soon, will offer its underlying games engine for other developers to create new apps, without having to outlay the dev investment. What the social outcomes of those apps are, though, is entirely down to others to invent, not for 4iP or anyone else to dictate or suggest. I’d say we’re on the road to providing several products that, with their APIs, for example, will lead to innovative tangents in the future.

Ed Whymandesign.com on Tue, July 21, 2009 at 3:30 said:

Thanks for your continued feedback. It is great. And the iphone app sounds great too.

We all know that the crux of many a project is how its output is assessed in the long and short term and how this can be done on subjective outputs (and with so many different outputs in the digital age) which is a very tough task.

I understand that any public money should be invested in projects that benefit the most people in the most significantly beneficial way (how that is measured i understand is tough too!

Maybe a list of the most effective public service outputs could be created for any publicly funded project such as:
1.
Can the product be reused by every member of the public-Open Source/Creative Commons…
2.
Does the business model benefit the most people - Not For/Profit, Coop, cic…
3.
Other items that the tech community agree on…
4.
How will the project continually evolve and innovate to provide the best value for money (the Traidmark.org business structure is one way to create institutional innovation in any organisation)


One important way to instantly increase the positive output building on your previous success is for 4ip to support EVERY applicant so that the number of people going forward and creating products goes up to a potential 100%.

So everyone who submits their idea is able to make it happen (as I guess no one has the ultimate knowledge to be able to say what will and wont work except maybe the people who submit them) and the best way to do this is to get EVERYONE to prove their product works by making them. We have been working on a self sustaining way to do this and would like to run this with you so that everyone can create their product. This could complement your existing great work so there is no negative side.

It would also be great for 4ip to publish information about different business models to give advice and help the applicants make the best choices when submitting their proposals. It would be great to help with this.

Thanks for your attention and keep up the great work.
I would love to help implement any of these suggestions any time.
http://www.whymandesign.com

Ewan McIntosh on Tue, July 21, 2009 at 9:35 said:

For some fairly (as it stands at this moment in time) exhaustive coverage of business models we look at, take a look at the recent post:
http://www.4ip.org.uk/blog/post/bizmodels/

The impact of projects is indeed an area og huge work across the whole channel. This year the annual report included for the first time a dedicated section on the impact of our PSB work. With 4iP this impact will hopefully increase, but finding metrics that make sense and help inform decisions on how to take good products further is not going to happen overnight.

And, we’ll never get 100% of ideas or anywhere near that accepted into 4iP, because 4iP is not the only shop in town and comes with some distinct flavours that are not always the right ones to add to some of the ideas we get through. I don’t want to see ideas shoe-horned into what might work for 4 and 4iP - they need to take our feedback as a means to improve for other funders or for simply bootstrapping the idea to make it happen.

Ed Whymandesign.com on Wed, July 22, 2009 at 11:26 said:

Thanks for the link. Have put my hapney there

It would be great if 4ip could host a discussion about business models that culminates in a conglomerationn of the latest business models and which are favored for public service funding (as surely some offer better public services than others?) that are emerging as business models appear to be the bedrock of future innovation and public service.


Regarding the up to 100% of project being created. There are ways to make this happen using existing 4ip and any other public service resources. I would love to help 4ip and other public service competitions do this. It has been done in other places where EVERY applicant is empowered and enabled to create their products. This would complement your great work and increase the output significantly. Is there a way to start a conversation between public service competitions to talk about issues such as this? Could 4ip start this given your links and reputation for innovation?

Have just relaunched http://www.ugcunion.org/ as a location to continue conversations and develoopments around 1. business models and 2. how public service activities/competitions can be enhanced and 3. provide examples of how this can happen. Please join this group and comment /create projects there too.

comment posted on twitter and... http://www.4ip.org.uk/blog/post/4ip_announces ... neur/

@jasonhall Who wants to help @4ip @unltd enable everyone who applies to make their product? #creativeinvestment #4ip #tuttle

Surely most projects must be low maintenance and so can be created relatively easily. e.g...
Have been working on http://www.MUSTart.org which put on live event that help people collaborate and give free books away to each other Its a nice icebreaker and encourages selfless generosity.

Also check out http://www.traidmark.org for a not for profit business structure that creates institutional innovation...

And finally...

http://www.barcampbar.org for an experiment in london where you can be the star! We are looking for partners in other countries to do different versions!

Please post comments relating to this comment and these sites on their respective websites

Keep up the great work. How can we enhance your service for everyones benefit? Let us do something to improve it?